My question posted to this subreddit involved extremes, groups that exist on the fringes of both parties and how the mainstream news/talk treats them.
In my question, I talked about my confusion for why Anarchist or Anarchist-like groups (Libertarians, The Tea Party, even Occupy to a degree) generally have more sympathy than pro-Statist political groups-------despite the fact that both group operate on the boundaries of "normal" and "moderate" political/economic lines of thought.
I posted my question to /r/Anarchism since the anarchists I've met and even worked with in the past seem to have a firm understanding of their philosophy, as well as an acceptance that they are still a on the edge what what many consider normal. I figured getting some feedback from an opposing end of the political/socio/economic spectrum might be the best course of action to get a better understanding of why certain beliefs garner more sympathy than others.
Is there any way to make my post visible again on this sub reddit? I was just hoping for some feedback.
Got a report that the post is spam. It's your only post ever, and with statements like this:
I'm a Corporatist first and a Statist second. I have done and will continue to due anything within my power to hasten the emergence of a Corporatocracy-------and I will continue to be a servant of that cause.
The post seems to be mostly trying to start an argument.
Maybe another mod disagrees with me and will approve it.
I was merely trying to be blunt about where I stand and what my perspectives are, so that there are no misconceptions about where I'm coming from when the posters read it.
I really wasn't trying to start an argument even if my description could lead to that impression. Just because I know where my loyalties lie doesn't mean I have animosity for other philosophies. In fact, I've worked with and under communists, anti-Government protestors, and had dealings with a cult at times in my life. I'm at a very different point in my life now, of course, but knowing how insightful members of those groups can be, I believed that subreddits like r/Anarchism might be able to offer some useful information.
I hope you can re-post my question if you or any other admin changes their mind, but thanks at least for getting back to me with such a quick reply.
This person is likely banned user Stirner/Jaki. I say that based on them being a rental manager and gun enthusiast. They have already commented in both the main sub and meta within 24hrs of making an account.
I turned it off a few weeks ago. There wasn't a proposal or anything. The other day I checked to see if it made any difference, and the number of up/down votes was pretty much identical to the numbers from before they were hidden. So, I reversed it. I can change it back to hide the votes if you want.
I can see the votes either way, since I use Alien Blue. Which is why I'm typically against any vote-hiding methods. Anyone can disable subreddit settings and vote, same thing with other platforms, like Alien Blue.
Hi can I get some advice on this? Surely it is a good idea to let people know that this doxx attack occured (I didn't mention the names of anyone suspected) to improve personal security? Not sure why it was banned. I want to repost this; how will this be possible?
As I said in the comment you are referencing a shitshow, and inviting it to start again. You conveniently left out the fact about pedophilia, and the response from the mod team has been to nuke that discussion. I didn't want the conversation to start again.
I honestly believe you posted that just to piss off the mods by creating a toxic thread.
The ban thread was a joke, we all know it. That's why I removed it, and now unfortunately I've had to remove Enkara also - this seemed like little more than a personal dispute and maybe a disagreement over moderation issues. These are not reasons to ban a user who has at least been trying to contribute.
With that said, this doesn't mean that min_thamee shouldn't be banned - just that they shouldn't be banned for those reasons, and in that way.
There have been SEVERAL ban threads for them, which have FAILED. Since then, I've seen nothing that constitutes a problem.
I've seen plenty of people saying "why should we allow MRA apologism?" - well, personally, I don't think we should. I just haven't seen any MRA apologism from min_thamee whatsoever. I sent a message to Enkara to see if we could discuss this, if necesesary - and now I ask the same of any of you, if you're unhappy with min_thamee, please talk to me about it.
I'm incredibly unhappy with Min_thamee, and I'm very upset with your actions here. I will address all of your points, but first there is a separate issue at hand double standards that might be better placed in a public thread then modmail. I've been debating on the best place to bring it up.
There is a double standard for mods that have recently been added in the past few months and senior mods such as yourself. Newer mods have had continual demands to post transparency threads for every single action we take. When we do take actions, even if there is near unanimous support, our actions are decried as "fascistic". However, when more senior mods take unilateral actions it's ignored.
I bring this up, because I see this playing a key part to in this issue.
The ban thread was a joke, we all know it.
No, that is not true. The_Mermaid, Vindalfr (a mod you unilaterally demodded without discussion with the community), and myself all supported the new thread.
now unfortunately I've had to remove Enkara also
Another unilateral action without any discussion.
There have been SEVERAL ban threads for them, which have FAILED.
There have also been SEVERAL ban threads that PASSED, and I proposed a warn thread that PASSED and Min_thamee has completely ignored it. This also leaves out the fact that the Min_dami account he used to use is still banned on meta, and he is avoiding that by using this new account.
Since then, I've seen nothing that constitutes a problem.
Well, that's good for you I guess. I completely disagree.
I've seen plenty of people saying "why should we allow MRA apologism?" - well, personally, I don't think we should. I just haven't seen any MRA apologism from min_thamee whatsoever.
Literally, every post in his history is MRA apologism.
I feel like the newer mods have been bending over backwards to accommodate Min_thamee. I've discussed these topics at length with him trying to convey that he needs to step back when these issues come up. He keeps promising to do better, and then gets worse. It's incredibly disruptive, and makes the space unsafe.
I would like to see you write an accountability thread about your actions. I'm so upset over what you have done that I'm shaking. I was so upset alone at your unilateral deletion of the ban thread that I didn't comment there, because I didn't think I could without loosing my cool and creating tons of drama. I think we are past that now.
Enkara needs to be remodded. If she is not, then I will remod her. After that, maybe we can have a discussion about what to do with Min_tamee. A discussion much like what we were having in that ban thread before you removed it.
Enkara should be remodded ASAP. I think it's completely wrong how Syncopate is removing mods without any discussion, or removing ban threads. Just because they are a senior mod doesn't mean they should have the final say on everything. There was no reason for that ban thread to be removed, and there was absolutely no reason to remove Enkara.
Enkara needs to be reinstated, demodding her was ridiculous.
And Min_Thamee should be banned. We wouldn't tolerate his behavior from anyone else, so I don't see why we are making an exception for him. And there was no reason to remove the ban thread for him.
That being said, here is a fair compromise: Reinstate Enkara immediately (and in the future, no mod should be demodded without any discussion, nor should any mod serve as a "top mod"). Then, create one official ban thread for Min_Thamee. If it passes, his ban remains. If it doesn't pass, let him come back.
I reinstated Enkara to the main subreddit. Is there a reason I have limited permissions on /r/meta? I used to have full permissions, someone changed it without informing me.
Here is the issue I'm having, Syncopate. You are acting like the head mod, and I don't think that's right. You're deleting ban threads, taking away people's mod permissions, demodding people, all without any discussion.
And I see that you unbanned Min_Thamee. Again, without any discussion or a vote. There was a discussion thread regarding Min_Thamee's ban, but you removed it. Then you made the unilateral decision that he should be welcome, despite the fact that all the other mods and the majority of the community feel differently.
@Syncopate, I created the thread asking you to step down. Please consider it, or at least drastically change your behavior on here. It's completely unacceptable, and there have already been several people calling for you to step down.
Oh, I forgot that subreddits have wikis. I'll post it tomorrow and edit, or you can delete the post. Sorry, I promise I'm not ordinarily a stereotype (circumstances and all) but I'm drunk and need to get up ASAP to go to jail tomorrow.
That sounds horrible but it wouldn't if I had the energy and time to explain.
Glad it could be cleared up! Would you consider reading the last couple pages of my comment history? I want you to see what I can help with- food sovereignty, trauma recovery, message dissemination, etc. I really do want to build a better society for everyone.
Also, sorry you're so stressed by this whole stalking thing. If it makes you feel any better, from what I can gather it seems like Clickbait's pride was insulted and they're making a hobby of revenge. I doubt they would do anything IRL. Hope that helps you sleep better at least.
Thanks, you do seem like a nice person, looking through your post history. I know they won't do anything in real life, I'm very cautious about internet security, the whole thing was just very humiliating and kind of scary.
I don't know what is happening on y'alls end of things, but the responses to /u/unravellingfallacy are entirely out of line. I find it incredibly distasteful/disappointing/.... (I lack words)
It's pretty clear who the extreme responses are coming from, and thus who is most likely doing the actual doxxing and actual IRL death-threats. I obviously can't prove that claim, but I'm really uncomfortable with punkswithcleankitchens and indignantry not even being warned for their entirely unnecessary (and incredibly violent) rhetoric/threats.
I'd like a moderator to publicly address those kinds of posts, and how unacceptable they are. We would not tolerate that rhetoric in any other circumstance, why are we allowing it now?
Check out the thread calling for their ban/warning. More hateful shit, apparently they've had IRL contact with people, etc. I don't know how to respond to that kind of shit, and I'm not interested in being on the receiving end of that much vitriol. Good luck, however you/y'all decide to handle it.
I think it isn't unreasonable for the mods to respond to this with a top-level post or brief stickypost. Sync0pate wanted greater civility in our dialogue? Here is a great time to start enforcing transparently that death threats, encouragement to commit suicide, etc. are unacceptable.
Each of those last words should be a different link. Even if we set aside unravellingfallacy's actual comments, which were not rape apologetics and at worst should have warranted a discussion of intention and terminology, the responses are, IMO, entirely unacceptable.
It doesn't look like apologetics to me, but it's such a sensitive topic that a little more tact would have been advisable.
But yeah, I really think we should get rid of comments telling people to go and die.. it's not constructive in any way. Trolls love getting a rise like that, and genuine people can be incredibly upset by it.
This would be a great time for the mods to present a united face and say "none of us consider these behaviors acceptable, and so this was the response taken. User's X, Y, & Z were reported to reddit admins and IP banned, anyone wanting to push this boundary will find themselves warned, banned, and/or recommended for IP banning by reddit admins, etc., etc."
I think sweeping this under the rug by removing the shitposts and simply walking away from it is horribly unfair to unravellingfallacy, who has likely been permanently driven away from participation here, or at all. They've almost certainly had their life ruined, this isn't just poor word choice but intentional bullying, harassment, threats.... frankly, I expect a pretty thorough response from y'all addressing this.
I messaged unravellingfallacy three hours ago when I first saw this. I asked if there was anything I could do, asked for the names of the perpetrators, and suggested contacting site admins if there was doxxing and harassment in reddit PMs.
I really can't do anything outside of that. If unravellingfallacy chooses not to provide names of harassers I can't very well just go on a blind ban spree hoping I get the right people.
What do you suggest vis a vis a "united face"? A meta thread? (not mocking, legit asking)
Yes. A sticky with a statement from each of you/representing a mod consensus stated unequivocally that this kind of behavior will always result in removal from the site. Provide quotes from offending users, calling them out publicly for their wildly inappropriate behavior. Make it clear that this means you're seeking IP-level bans, not just a username ban that can be circumvented. This should be at least worthy of a transparency thread, christ.
Of course they aren't willing/able to name their harassers, they've gotten death threats and calls at their work trying to get them fired. Don't act like "well s/he wouldn't name their rapist so we can't be sure who did it". I'm not calling for a blind spree, it seems pretty clear who the major instigators were. Y'all make your own choices regarding who gets what kind of punishment, if at all. Either way, we've permanently shut-down an 18yr. old kid because they said some disagreeable shit.
A sticky with a statement from each of you/representing a mod consensus stated unequivocally that this kind of behavior will always result in removal from the site.
Which behavior specifically? The calls for killing themselves? Sadly, there is no precedent for banning for that. By all means, please start a meta thread to add this to the AOP but currently every thread I have ever seen asking for a ban based on that has ended with no action at all. Maybe I am mistaken but I don't think so.
Don't act like "well s/he wouldn't name their rapist so we can't be sure who did it".
That is exactly the case here. You don't know who was harassing them through PM anymore than I do and I'm not going to assume because somebody was publicly shitty than necessarily means they took things far enough to harass them privately.
Either way, we've permanently shut-down an 18yr. old kid because they said some disagreeable shit.
We didn't do anything. I am not responsible for things that happen when I am not even online. As I said, when I saw this message a few hours ago, I PMd unravellingfallacy and suggested nuking the whole thread (which I did).
You aren't powerless. Start a fucking meta thread.
Meh. This is why it is good I am not a moderator. I'd put at least two users up for IP-level bans on principle, and anyone challenging that could get temp banned for keeping the shit going after I'd had my say.
Which behavior specifically? The calls for killing themselves? Sadly, there is no precedent for banning for that.
And I'm not sure there should be. Responses like that are often made out of anger and emotion in the spur of the moment. I do think we should remove them though and not tolerate it.
But yeah, if there's personal harassment we should definitely be seeking a reddit ban from the admins - IF WE HAVE ANY IDEA WHO IS DOING IT. We need some proof - we can't just go after people on a hunch.
Yeah, no. I want to teach children for a living, I can't afford to have my employer/school/family called with threats and claims I'm a pedo. I've had the same account for 5 yrs. I've had friends find me on here, how hard would it be for these assholes?
I'm not touching this with a ten-foot pole lashed to another ten-foot pole. Its clear from the rhetoric who is making the most extreme statements here, and how closely those resemble the IRL threats unravelling has reportedly received. Is that definitive proof? No.
Your right, we didn't make the threats. We just gave them a(brief) home, and then got rid of them so as to move on like it never happened. This person got so scared they've quit using reddit completely from what I can tell. Is that acceptable? Not in my mind.
I said when I first messaged y'all that I had no idea what the "correct" response is, only that something should be done in a public fashion.
Also, mods are a group, so action by mods can't lead to individual doxxing the way ME proposing a thread clearly addressing the actions of those users would. Yes I fear IRL repercussions. I believe you do as well, and that sucks. Being moderator shouldn't come with this kind of baggage, and yet here we are. I'm not giving you shit, but the mod team needs to respond to this as a unified body. Who cares is there isn't a precedent for banning over death/rape threats? Fucking do it anyway, you have total control. Do you need a "precedent" to kick someone like that out of your home/collective space, or would the shitty action(s) take priority over establishing policy?
First of all, unless someone lists the usernames of who made the threats, we can't do anything.
Also, it's understandable that you don't want to be doxxed and have IRL repercussions, but neither do I. I've already been threatened with that by MRAs. It is possible for someone to go after an individual mod. As I said, it has happened to me already. If you say who made the threads, we can ban them. If you want any further action, like going to the admins and trying to get their accounts deleted, I'm going to step back from that.
Fair points. I think a statement from the mods regarding the content of the posts would be reasonable. Something along the lines of "calls to commit suicide/death threats will result in unilateral ban" I get there isn't much y'all can do, but I don't think doing everything behind the scenes is appropriate either.
Anyone opposed to doing a really silly April Fool's Day prank? I want to give ATPL the "Dear Leader" crown flair he keeps asking for, and make a sticky thread on meta claiming all official judgements need to go through him.
With all of the drama going on I think a little fun might remind everyone that this is an Internet forum, and that they shouldn't take themselves so seriously.